"Gentlemen, there are only two types of naval vessels..........Submarines, and Targets" -- U.S. Navy Submarine SONAR Instructor.

 

Message 774487 - Posted 27 Jun 2008 22:56:00 UTC

I've read a lot of that material regarding the WOW! signal. As far as I recall, all potential terrestial 'interference' can be discounted. There were no satellites in the way, there were no probes on their way to Mars of any of the other planets crossing the path, there were no planes in the way etc.

The reason WOW! is discounted by the scientific community is mainly because it hasnt been detected since. I mean come on! If we can claim we may be the only intelligence in a galaxy of some 400 billion stars, meaning we're the result of a 400 billion to 1 shot, then, I dont see how the probabilty that Big Ear 'just got lucky' and picked up WOW! the one time.

WOW! ticks more boxes than it doesnt. The only box it doesnt really tick is repeated attempts to find it again. The fact it was a 'one off' is just the same thing. ID: 774487

 

Message 774490 - Posted 27 Jun 2008 23:10:46 UTC - in response to Message ID 774487 Last modified: 27 Jun 2008 23:36:48 UTC

I dont see how the probabilty that Big Ear 'just got lucky' and picked up WOW! the one time.

That's exactly the point.
The probability that the Big Ear "just got lucky" and just so happened to hear ET for 72 seconds in only one of two synchronous beams and couldn't even detect it 3 minutes later with the second beam, and no other scan has ever picked it up again in 30 years is.....frankly, ridiculous.

The problem with WOW is that it only ticks one box, it fails every other.

If WOW! is a real signal from ET, then it means ET knew the exact moment that beam 1 of the Big Ear would be pointing at that exact spot in the sky and would ONLY be signaling Earth for the exact 72 seconds it took for Beam 1 to account for Earth's rotation and then immediately turn the signal off as soon as Beam 1 stopped listening and switched to Beam 2.

You have to realize;

WOW wasn't picked up for an arbitrary length of time... It's not like the Big Ear *just so happened* to pick up the tail end of an ET transmission. It was picked up *only* for the exact the amount of time it takes for the first beam to pass through and scan one area of space as the Earth rotates. When the second beam passed through the same area 3 minutes later, it detected nothing. That's not a coincidence. The chances of it being a genuine detection are more than "400 billion to 1" because the first beam could've been scanning any other single location in the sky or the Big Ear's side of the Earth could've been facing the opposite direction.

ET must have been clairvoyant and known exactly when the first beam was going to be scanning the patch of sky where their signal was, and turned it on and then shut it off again *just* so the first beam alone could detect it.

SETI is based on the assumption that ET will be making a long-term effort to signal our planet; the search is essentially for a long-term continuous signal that's been beamed for thousands, possibly millions of years. We assume that ET is smart enough to know that only a long term effort to signal us will succeed, particularly if they're smart enough to know to use something as simple and primitive as radio to contact us.

Sending a single beam that's only detectable for a (coincidental) 72 seconds is a bad strategy since the chances that we will be listening at the right frequency, at exactly the right time, and at exactly the right spot are overwhelmingly remote.

Have you ever had a glitch on your personal computer?
Well, the Big Ear's technology is 30 years older than your PC. It was no more immune to the occasional glitch than your PC is.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

The first test in science is verifiability; results have to be independently reproduced.

You apparently don't put much stock in Occam's Razor... ;) ID: 774490

 

Message 774499- Posted 27 Jun 2008 23:31:50 UTC - in response to Message ID 774490.

[quote]I dont see how the probabilty that Big Ear 'just got lucky' and picked up WOW! the one time.

That's exactly the point.

The probability that the Big Ear "just got lucky" and just so happened to hear ET for 72 seconds in only one of two synchronous beams and couldn't even detect it 3 minutes later with the second beam, and no other scan has ever picked it up again in 30 years is.....frankly, ridiculous.

The problem with WOW is that it only ticks one box, it fails every other.

No it ticks more than one box. If you read the reports, Big Ear wasnt pointed in the direction it received WOW! for most of the time before it was received.

If WOW! is a real signal from ET, then it means ET knew the exact moment that beam 1 of the Big Ear would be pointing at that exact spot in the sky and would ONLY be signaling Earth for the exact 72 seconds it took for Beam 1 to account for Earth's rotation and then immediately turn the signal off as soon as Beam 1 stopped listening and switched to Beam 2.

You state ET just switched the signal off at the right moment. This is a massive asumption. For all we know, they could just have pointed their transmitter in a general direction moved position, transmitted again, moved direction etc. The point overlooked is the transmission was very close to the 1420mhz frequency. All informed scientists tell us this is a great frequency to listen to for the 'marker transmission,' the indication that someone is saying 'hello, we're here!' and not in itself a 'message.'

 

Message 774504 - Posted 27 Jun 2008 23:44:57 UTC - in response to Message ID 774499. Last modified: 27 Jun 2008 23:47:20 UTC

No it ticks more than one box. If you read the reports, Big Ear wasnt pointed in the direction it received WOW! for most of the time before it was received.

It only detected WOW when beam 1 scanned the area of the sky it passed through for 72 seconds; the second beam was pointed in the same direction 3 minutes later and detected nothing.

You state ET just switched the signal off at the right moment. This is a massive asumption. For all we know, they could just have pointed their transmitter in a general direction moved position, transmitted again, moved direction etc. The point overlooked is the transmission was very close to the 1420mhz frequency. All informed scientists tell us this is a great frequency to listen to for the 'marker transmission,' the indication that someone is saying 'hello, we're here!' and not in itself a 'message.'

Hehehe...that's a massive assumption on your part.

- I said ET must have switched the signal off after Beam 1 passed through the patch of sky where WOW was detected.

- You say ET might have pointed their transmitter in a different direction after Beam 1 passed through.

Ummmmm....if WOW is really a signal from ET, then aren't both of those assumptions just as equally likely to be true, and aren't they both equally "massive"? :P
If WOW is genuine, then one of those possibilities has to be the case, and both of them seem to require a clairvoyant knowledge of how long it would take for the first beam to pass through a patch of sky and account for the Earth's rotation.

Heck, even the notion that ET would use the 1420 Hydrogen frequency to signal Earth (which is the basis of SETI@Home) is also a "massive assumption" and any SETI researcher will admit as much. ;)

 

Message 774892 - Posted 28 Jun 2008 20:29:35 UTC - in response to Message ID 774515

i believe that iT was said - a long time ago - that the ANSWER to that particular question is NO - in other words - 'THEY would NOT be told'.

Well, whoever said that was WRONG

Matt Lebofsky just GAVE THE ANSWER in this thread. There's no reason not to take him or anyone else working on SETI at their word.

 

Message 776020 - Posted 30 Jun 2008 20:52:30 UTC - in response to Message ID 775008. Last modified: 30 Jun 2008 20:53:48 UTC

. . . ever heard of Majestic 12 ?

Oh lordy....

Yeah, I heard of Majestic 12....in the video game Deus Ex... LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex

There is nobody who doesn't "want" YOU to find anything. There's no Majestic 12 either for that matter....

The government doesn't give a flying crap about SETI; if they did, they wouldn't have cut funding for SETI when it was being done under NASA.

And like I said, some people have short-term memory loss.

Remember the Martian meteor ????? The one that was claimed to have Martian life back in the 90s?

WHY didn't the government confiscate it to study it and silence the scientists working on it????

WHY did the federal government JUMP on the story and immediately make a public declaration that it could be the first alien life we've discovered???


If any SETI effort found a signal:
a) The press would leak it before the SETI scientists even have a chance to have a press conference about it (remember http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_source_SHGb02%2B14a)
b) To confirm the signal, the information that it even exists would be passed along throughout not only the entire SETI community but also the entire astronomical community. Do you REALLY believe that the government has Matt Lebofsky's phone bugged and is monitoring the communications of every single SETI scientist and mundane radio astronomer throughout the entire world ????

How in the heck would the government even KNOW about it before the entire SETI and astronomy community do ?? Or before the press, for that matter ??? And how could they silence all of these people, threaten with death?? Kidnap them??
c) The president would have a press conference immediately to declare the find and assert the historical value of that moment; just like Bill Clinton did when the meteor was discovered, any president would jump at the chance to be associated such a milestone in history


In other words, the whole SETI conspiracy theory thing is nothing but hogwash.

 

Message 776095 - Posted 1 Jul 2008 0:03:10 UTC There is no conspiracy--but them paranoids is after us !!

DADDIO ID: 776095

 

Message 776457 - Posted 1 Jul 2008 14:04:39 UTC - in response to Message 776095.

There is no conspiracy--but them paranoids is after us !!

DADDIO ID
I'm sleepin the closet tonight...anybody could one of them conspiracy theorists...even YOU!

 

Message 776627 - Posted 1 Jul 2008 21:44:31 UTC - in response to Message ID 774504.

No it ticks more than one box. If you read the reports, Big Ear wasnt pointed in the direction it received WOW! for most of the time before it was received.

It only detected WOW when beam 1 scanned the area of the sky it passed through for 72 seconds; the second beam was pointed in the same direction 3 minutes later and detected nothing.

You state ET just switched the signal off at the right moment. This is a massive asumption. For all we know, they could just have pointed their transmitter in a general direction moved position, transmitted again, moved direction etc. The point overlooked is the transmission was very close to the 1420mhz frequency. All informed scientists tell us this is a great frequency to listen to for the 'marker transmission,' the indication that someone is saying 'hello, we're here!' and not in itself a 'message.'

Hehehe...that's a massive assumption on your part.
- I said ET must have switched the signal off after Beam 1 passed through the patch of sky where WOW was detected.

- You say ET might have pointed their transmitter in a different direction after Beam 1 passed through.

Ummmmm....if WOW is really a signal from ET, then aren't both of those assumptions just as equally likely to be true, and aren't they both equally "massive"? :P

If WOW is genuine, then one of those possibilities has to be the case, and both of them seem to require a clairvoyant knowledge of how long it would take for the first beam to pass through a patch of sky and account for the Earth's rotation.

Heck, even the notion that ET would use the 1420 Hydrogen frequency to signal Earth (which is the basis of SETI@Home) is also a "massive assumption" and any SETI researcher will admit as much. ;)

You originally said, WOW! only ticked one box. Let's review how many boxes WOW! actually does tick

Nearly all of the scientific community states that the ideal frequency to look for a signal would be 1420mhz. This is where WOW! was found. First tick in the box.

1420mhz is universally banned for terrestrial transmission ergo, WOW! could not have been terrestial in origin. Second tick in the box.

The direction of WOW! was not that of one of the planets in the solar system. Third tick in the box.

The origin of WOW! was not a satelite. Four ticks in the box. I wont count the possibility of reflected signals off asteroids or planes etc although these could arguably be claimed as further ticks in the box.

WOW! was a narrow band signal and narrow band signals dont happen naturally. Five ticks in the box.

WOW! signal intensity and duration matched that expected due to the Earth's rotation. Six ticks in the box.

I could go on but I think my point is proven.

It is correct Big Ear only picked up ONE instance of the signal however, its wrong to assume the sender 'switched off' the signal at just the right time. It could be purely co incidental if the signal beam was transmitted for a specific duration then transmitted in a totally different direction. The sender doesnt even need to know (or indeed care) about the rotational speed of Earth. I dont think your supposition hold because you assume the sender deliberately stopped the signal so it wouldnt be picked up in the second sweep. Im saying the sender didnt care or conciously think of stopping the transmission. It was just pointed elsewhere. Yes, both options are possible but the 'switch off' just in time is highly unlikely.

If WOW! was a glitch, then, statistically, that 'glitch' should have happened before and or after WOW! was found. The fact that no other glitch akin to WOW! has ever been found gives a clear probability that it wasnt a glitch.

I cannot seriously take your statement that searching at 1420mhz is a massive assumption on our part.

 

Message 777228 - Posted 2 Jul 2008 17:05:34 UTC - in response to Message ID 776627.
Last modified: 2 Jul 2008 17:07:16 UTC

You originally said, WOW! only ticked one box. Let's review how many boxes WOW! actually does tick

Nearly all of the scientific community states that the ideal frequency to look for a signal would be 1420mhz. This is where WOW! was found. First tick in the box.

You're right, this *IS* a tick in the box; a parameter invented by the humans who assigned it as a box to tick in the first place (though not without good reason). That in itself doesn't necessarily make it more likely to be an ETI signal than not, however. ...and "nearly all in the scientific community" is an extreme exaggeration. Even among SETI scientists, there is wide disagreement over whether radio is "ideal" to listen to for ETI in the first place.

Regardless, if the WOW! signal were a one-time glitch, it would be a remarkable coincidence that it occurred around this frequency. Nevertheless, mere chance alone dictates it's possible.

1420mhz is universally banned for terrestrial transmission ergo, WOW! could not have been terrestial in origin. Second tick in the box.

Not unless the "transmission" was in fact a glitch in the Big Ear in the first place; in that case it would have very much been terrestrial in origin.

The direction of WOW! was not that of one of the planets in the solar system. Third tick in the box.

The origin of WOW! was not a satelite. Four ticks in the box. I wont count the possibility of reflected signals off asteroids or planes etc although these could arguably be claimed as further ticks in the box.

WOW! was a narrow band signal and narrow band signals dont happen naturally. Five ticks in the box.

None of those are really "ticks in the box" if the WOW! Signal since none of those objects were in the direction of the second beam three minutes later either, and a glitch could also be described as an unnatural source for the narrow band detection.

WOW! signal intensity and duration matched that expected due to the Earth's rotation. Six ticks in the box.

...but failed the expected confirmation by the second beam, suggesting that there was really nothing extraterrestrial being detected in the first place.

I could go on but I think my point is proven.

Only to those who persist in the blind faith notion that WOW! was a significant extraterrestrial detection or disavow alternative explanations.

It is correct Big Ear only picked up ONE instance of the signal however, its wrong to assume the sender 'switched off' the signal at just the right time. It could be purely co incidental if the signal beam was transmitted for a specific duration then transmitted in a totally different direction.

Again, why is it "wrong" to assume that the sender switched off the signal after it was detected by the first beam but right for you to assume that the sender switched the signal's direction after it was detected by the first beam???

I'm not understanding that.

Since the signal was only detected for 72 seconds by the first beam and not detected 3 minutes later by the second beam, if you believe that it was a genuine ETI signal, then there are only TWO possibilities.
Either
a) The sender switched the signal off right before the second beam would've confirmed it
or
b) The sender switched the signal's direction right before the second beam would've confirmed it

Maybe I'm stupid, but if you believe that it was a genuine ETI signal, then aren't both possibilities equally likely and equally as much of a coincidence?

The sender doesnt even need to know (or indeed care) about the rotational speed of Earth.

With all due respect, I think that's rather foolish. I don't think you really mean that...

Of course the notion that ET would transmit at 1420mhz is a massive assumption (albeit not an unreasonable one); even the SETI @Home team would admit that. All SETI work is based on "assumptions", some more massive than others.

"We can scarcely imagine [ET's] thought processes, or their reasons and methods for communicating with us. All we can do is make some educated guesses based on our own knowledge and technology. And even if we are wrong about the aliens' reasoning, we can still hope that they will try to tailor their signal to our own naïve expectations."

 

Message 777474 - Posted 2 Jul 2008 21:30:52 UTC - in response to Message ID 777228.

You originally said, WOW! only ticked one box. Let's review how many boxes WOW! actually does tick

Nearly all of the scientific community states that the ideal frequency to look for a signal would be 1420mhz. This is where WOW! was found. First tick in the box.

You're right, this *IS* a tick in the box; a parameter invented by the humans who assigned it as a box to tick in the first place (though not without good reason). That in itself doesn't necessarily make it more likely to be an ETI signal than not, however. ...and "nearly all in the scientific community" is an extreme exaggeration. Even among SETI scientists, there is wide disagreement over whether radio is "ideal" to listen to for ETI in the first place.

Regardless, if the WOW! signal were a one-time glitch, it would be a remarkable coincidence that it occurred around this frequency. Nevertheless, mere chance alone dictates it's possible.

1420mhz is universally banned for terrestrial transmission ergo, WOW! could not have been terrestial in origin. Second tick in the box.Not unless the "transmission" was in fact a glitch in the Big Ear in the first place; in that case it would have very much been terrestrial in origin.

The direction of WOW! was not that of one of the planets in the solar system. Third tick in the box.

The origin of WOW! was not a satelite. Four ticks in the box. I wont count the possibility of reflected signals off asteroids or planes etc although these could arguably be claimed as further ticks in the box.

WOW! was a narrow band signal and narrow band signals dont happen naturally. Five ticks in the box.

None of those are really "ticks in the box" if the WOW! Signal since none of those objects were in the direction of the second beam three minutes later either, and a glitch could also be described as an unnatural source for the narrow band detection.

WOW! signal intensity and duration matched that expected due to the Earth's rotation. Six ticks in the box.

...but failed the expected confirmation by the second beam, suggesting that there was really nothing extraterrestrial being detected in the first place.

I could go on but I think my point is proven.

Only to those who persist in the blind faith notion that WOW! was a significant extraterrestrial detection or disavow alternative explanations.

It is correct Big Ear only picked up ONE instance of the signal however, its wrong to assume the sender 'switched off' the signal at just the right time. It could be purely co incidental if the signal beam was transmitted for a specific duration then transmitted in a totally different direction.

Again, why is it "wrong" to assume that the sender switched off the signal after it was detected by the first beam but right for you to assume that the sender switched the signal's direction after it was detected by the first beam???

I'm not understanding that.

Since the signal was only detected for 72 seconds by the first beam and not detected 3 minutes later by the second beam, if you believe that it was a genuine ETI signal, then there are only TWO possibilities.

Either
a) The sender switched the signal off right before the second beam would've confirmed it
or
b) The sender switched the signal's direction right before the second beam would've confirmed it

Maybe I'm stupid, but if you believe that it was a genuine ETI signal, then aren't both possibilities equally likely and equally as much of a coincidence?

The sender doesnt even need to know (or indeed care) about the rotational speed of Earth.

The possibility that a genuine ETI signal signal being beamed from light years away would be picked up by the first beam for 72 seconds and not by the second 3 minutes later is so vastly remote, that statistically speaking, Occam's Razor would dictate that the sender knew when the first beam was no longer detecting it. ...then again, Occam's Razor also suggests it wasn't an ETI signal.

I cannot seriously take your statement that searching at 1420mhz is a massive assumption on our part.
With all due respect, I think that's rather foolish. I don't think you really mean that...

Of course the notion that ET would transmit at 1420mhz is a massive assumption (albeit not an unreasonable one); even the SETI@Home team would admit that. All SETI work is based on "assumptions", some more massive than others.

"We can scarcely imagine [ET's] thought processes, or their reasons and methods for communicating with us. All we can do is make some educated guesses based on our own knowledge and technology. And even if we are wrong about the aliens' reasoning, we can still hope that they will try to tailor their signal to our own naïve expectations."

My premise is not that WOW! was indisputably a signal from another civilisation beyond our solar system but, one that a probably signal has been debunked when it satisfies many of the criteria SETI and the scientific community have set out for determining a signal IS from an extra terrestial civilisation.

You quoted Sagan previously regarding extraordinary claims needing extraordinary evidence yet, you mention the spectre of life so alien we possibly could not comprehend it as such. We may as well argue that rock on the beach nearby is life but 'not as we know it.'

From all the papers I've read, even Erhman now seems to suggest WOW! was not a glitch and ticked more boxes than it didnt.

What Im saying is, definitely discounting WOW! is wrong. It should be classed as unproven but potentially a viable signal.

 

 

Message 777961 - Posted 3 Jul 2008 14:31:49 UTC - in response Message ID 77474 Last modified: 3 Jul 2008 14:32:31 UTC

You quoted Sagan previously regarding extraordinary claims needing extraordinary evidence yet, you mention the spectre of life so alien we possibly could not comprehend it as such. We may as well argue that rock on the beach nearby is life but 'not as we know it.'

Not sure I follow you there...
I never made any post on these forums about "life so alien we possibly could not comprehend it as such". Indeed, I believe in commonly held astrobiology guidelines regarding anything we could classify as "life", such as metabolism, etc etc. This is why I believe that synthetic organisms not of natural origin could also be classified as "life" someday.
Since a rock doesn't meet those criteria, it couldn't be classified as life.

What Im saying is, definitely discounting WOW! is wrong. It should be classed as unproven but potentially a viable signal.

Here's the thing:
I never said that WOW! was absolutely, without doubt NOT a genuine ETI signal. I did say that it seems fairly clear to me that the possibility that it *is* an ETI signal appears incredibly remote. I believe that future consideration of WOW! is fruitless: As the SETI@Home team and the people of the SETI Institute know, "signals" are detected all the time; the issue is weeding out the ones that cannot be confirmed or can be otherwise explained. Indeed, Seth Shostak often mentions a potential signal that was being continuously detected for one whole day. Since WOW! failed the very first attempt at confirmation just three minutes after it was initially detected, I don't feel it should be given anymore consideration than any other false alarm.

 

 

Message 780281- Posted 7 Jul 2008 15:54:28 UTC

Hello all

This post is a very very good read. I see now how people have different ideas on the known universe.

There are more stars out there that may support life then we can ever count. We are now finding out that you may have life on a moon or small body that may be very far away from a star. This alone may effect how we look for life. Now advance life that may be close to us, may be very very rare. Humans may not be here now if there was not a major event that caused us to climb to the top of the food chain. Humans has only looked into space for a blink of an eye and the earth has been here for millions of years. (this is very short time)

I do think that we are not alone.

I do think we are among a select few that has become self aware.

Now I have two big question for all that may have an answer.

When the WOW signal was found, how long was it before the public was informed?

Next question is that, every signal that comes from earth has some kind of data in it. It is very hard for me to take in that the WOW signal cant be traced back to some kind of transmition. If the signal came from earth, it would be very easy to know what it was and where it came from.
The wow signal must have came from deep space. Also there would be some kind of data in the WOW signal.

I know there is alot of back ground noise that could make a signal. But most signals that have came from humans has some kind of data. It is safe to say that any ET that can produce a signal that would be dected from earth would be far more advance than us, and would put some kind of data in the signal also.

Is the WOW signal truely a WOW or not? We may never know...ID: 780281

 

 

Message 780340 - Posted 7 Jul 2008 19:23:37 UTC - in response to Message ID 780281. Last modified: 7 Jul 2008 19:24:34 UTC

the earth has been here for millions of years. (this is very short time)

The Earth has been here for about ~ 4.6 billion years.

When the WOW signal was found, how long was it before the public was informed?

I don't think the public was ever officially "informed" since the scientists at the Big Ear felt there was nothing to "inform" them about; there was no confirmation, hence, nothing to announce. So there were never any public press conferences on "WOW!"

When the signal was detected, scientists at other radio observatories were contacted and some effort was made by independent teams to redetect the signal, all to no avail. I suppose you could say that as soon as the scientists at the Big Ear observatory contacted other teams around the world, that was "informing the public". Of course, during this time, the press got a hold of the information and made a big deal out of it as they've done several times in the past with detections that turned out to be false alarms.

Next question is that, every signal that comes from earth has some kind of data in it. It is very hard for me to take in that the WOW signal cant be traced back to some kind of transmition. If the signal came from earth, it would be very easy to know what it was and where it came from.

Nope.
The Big Ear was not capable of deciphering or interpreting any kind of data that might have been encoded on the signal. All it could do was measure the intensity of the radio waves.

http://www.bigear.org/6equj5.htm

Imagine if you had a little decibel reader that could tell you when it detected a loud noise and what the decibel level of that noise was. Unfortunately, it wouldn't be able to tell you if the noise was a piece by Mozart or someone banging on a wall.

The wow signal must have came from deep space.

Many SETI scientists disagree with you. Also, "must" is a strong word. Like I said, it's possible.

Also there would be some kind of data in the WOW signal.

Since Big Ear only recorded the intensity of the radio waves, it did not record any data that might have been encoded on the signal. Of course, *IF* any data was encoded on the signal in the first place; there's no evidence of that.

I know there is alot of back ground noise that could make a signal

Just to be clear and fair, to my knowledge there is no known natural background noise in interstellar space capable of producing an emission similar to WOW!

But most signals that have came from humans has some kind of data. It is safe to say that any ET that can produce a signal that would be dected from earth would be far more advance than us, and would put some kind of data in the signal also.

I agree that ET would likely encode data in any emission we detected. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing if any data was encoded in WOW!

 

 

Message 780360- Posted 7 Jul 2008 20:48:46 UTC

I disagree with a number of Taurus' points.

The WOW! signal was not immediately 'detected' by the Big Ear team. Such was the state of SETI signal searching at the time, Ehman didnt even get around to reading the data output from Big Ear until sometime afterwards. In fact, he states it was a couple of days later that he found the signal data.

Its true other scientists attempted to re find WOW! but the EXACT position that the signal came from is not certain. Therefore, trying to find the signal again is like searching for the proverbial needle. Its also interesting to note that WOW! is mainly talked about to debunk it coming from a non terrestial source. If the signal had of been re detected, it would be interesting to know IF as much effort would have been put into letting the public know it WAS a signal rather than it not being.

Next point is Taurus states many SETI scientist disagree WOW! came from deep space. Really! Let's hear their arguments then because I havent seen any. ALL the indications are the signal came from outside our solar system (assuming it wasnt a glitch, of course and if it was a glitch, statistically, that 'glitch should have been repeated but it never did!)

The signal was near the 1420Mhz frequency. MOst scientists claim this is the ideal place to search for a signal. Curiously, some scientists say its not but these are probably the same scientists who claim life could be so alien, we wouldnt recognise it as such. In other words, that rock in your garden 'may' be life but because its alien, we'd never know!

Taurus is correct that Big Ear couldnt detect any message in the signal even if one was present. We will never know however whether WOW! DID contain any other information because of that simple fact. And in any event, Big Ear was only looking for a marker signal which WOW! could well turn out to be.

Taurus even admits there is no known natural background noise in space capable of making WOW! As I have previously said, we can rule out a number of causes for WOW but it is virtually consigned to the rubbish bin of history.

Whilst I conceed there is no definite proof that WOW! was from an ET civilisation, there is sufficient evidence to suggest it possibly was. ID: 780360

 

 

Message 780376 - Posted 7 Jul 2008 21:34:25 UTC Last modified: 7 Jul 2008 21:35:33 UTC

Centenary writes:

"...Big Ear was only looking for a marker signal which WOW! could well turn out to be."

Okay, but marking what? If ET was telling us to stay tuned to that channel, we did, and heard nothing more. There were numerous efforts to hear something more there.

"Whilst I conceed there is no definite proof that WOW! was from an ET civilisation, there is sufficient evidence to suggest it possibly was."

Much as I'd love to see us find a signal, I think it's far more likely that WOW was a hoax or a glitch. Just possibly it was ET. But there's nothing more we can reasonably do, is there, besides keep listening? Without exhaustive verification, nobody in her right mind is going to call CNN and say, "Hey, we found ET!" By the same token, I'll bet that if there was a verified signal, word would get out quickly even if some government or agency tried to bury it.

"Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living, that's something else." (Han Solo) ID: 780376

 

 

Message 780384 - Posted 7 Jul 2008 21:55:39 UTC

Thank you for your views centenary , Taurus. I did not know that there was not a recording of the actual signal. It seems to me that there would be some kind of recording of this signal somewhere. ( i know if i was working there that would be the first thing I would do is record it )

Back to the start of my post.